Yet another blog.
Since some of playthrough is really, really outdated already.
Published on November 25, 2013 By kwm1800 In Legendary Heroes

Elemental : Legendary Heroes detailed playthrough for new players.



For the sake of this playthrough for new players, I won’t be using any custom heroes nor faction.

This playthrough is done with all of DLCs installed.


Part 1 : https://forums.elementalgame.com/450427/get;3421688

Part 2 : https://forums.elementalgame.com/450427/get;3421689

Part 3 : https://forums.elementalgame.com/450427/get;3421938

Part 4 : https://forums.elementalgame.com/450427/get;3422305

Part 5 : Soon


Comments (Page 2)
3 Pages1 2 3 
on Nov 26, 2013

Answers in red words.

 

Raiddinn

Good effort trying to make a playthrough that can help ease people into the game.

Some other considerations for beginners reading the comments that they might want to consider for their own games:

1) If you move the militia 2 spaces and the spearman 1 space (or vice versa) before moving the hero, the hero can make a city anywhere at a distance of 2 on turn 1, because one of your units still has movement left and that will prevent auto-turn from engaging.  Then you can use the 2nd movement of the original unit after the city has been created.  Proceeding this way is almost guaranteed to result in better outcomes for those people who like to leave auto-turn on.

My auto-turn is off, fortunately. 

 

2) The 3/3/1 tile still looks to be within a distance of 1 from a forest tile.  If you are in the game it is pretty easy to measure this, but I am just guessing from the screenshots.  If so, a city built there can still make the lumber mill.  Maybe it can't make it on turn 1 if the wood is diagonal to the home city, but it will be enabled for later building when you can put it in a forest tile.  Also note that it doesn't have to be in the forest tile next to the city.  For those who turn on manual building placement, they can "snake" the lumber mill and have it be far from the wood that enabled its construction.

Yes, I thought it was diagonal that it wouldn't had access to forest. And no, you can't "snake" to the forest to enable that. There is a snake mod enable that, but in default game, it won't.



2a) I would rate the 3/3/1 as higher than a generic 2/4/0 tile, especially for Procipinee who has 3 different kinds of magic.  The more types of magic your heroes can cast, the more valuable essence slots are and Procipinee can cast more types and more of the best types than any other sovereign can.  Also note that many city enchantments have per essence bonuses, so 2 enchantments with 2 bonus each is 4x better than 1 enchantment with 1 bonus.

2b) If the 3/3/1 were chosen, Procipinee could cast an enchantment on the city that would give it +1 research per turn.  In the beginning of the game, that amounts to doubling research speed which allows researching the key early techs in half the time.

2c) The difference between 3 hammers and 4 hammers of production is pretty substantial (4 will get things done 33% more quickly than 3), but it is possible to use enchantments that increase city production if you have earth magic.  Procipinee doesn't, but it is fairly likely an early hero will.  That would enable the 3/3/1 to act as a 3/4/1 city which would be far superior to the 2/4/0 city.

Well, the problem is, the leveling is ultra slow. I think I mentioned somewhere that the highest hero level I've ever gotten was 18. No way I will be able to use all three schools of magic, and I mentioned I will abandon water magic for this playthrough. Rest of your concerns, I agree.



3) I usually take Civics research first to get Bell Towers more quickly and then get Restoration second.  Knowledge can also be good, because it allows you to build a Study earlier.  This doubles your research speed if you aren't using Inspiration or adds 50% if you are.  Compare a production increase of about 16% vs a research increase of 100% or 50%.  Ultimately production is going to be the bigger bottleneck than research will be over the long term, but in the beginning I like to get the biggest impact improvements first and 100% > 16%.  Restoration also takes longer than either Civics or Knowledge to complete and generally speaking the more research that is completed faster the better.

Well, problem is, sometimes I really need early troops when something gones terribly wrong (i.e strong lair needs to be taken down quickly, I lost my entire troops, etc), I found going production first is the most flexible option. But yes, this depends vary on starting position.



4) With manual building placement, I wouldn't suggest queueing up 3 buildings at once.  Manually placing buildings can be hugely advantageous, but only if you place them well.  Generally speaking, placing them well means connecting the newest one to the one placed immediately before.  You can't do that until the previous one is completely constructed.  

4a) Looking at the pictures, the one placed up and to the right of the city is excellently placed.  The other two are uselessly placed.  One of them by necessity must be placed poorly, because the lumber mill has to be put on a forest tile and the lumber mill is being constructed first in this playthrough.  The other, however, should definitely be placed farther up and to the right when the one already in that direction is finished with construction.

Yes, but I hate sneaking, it is not beautiful looking tho.



4b) The best use of manual building placement is to enable your city guards to guard your resources.  In this case there is only 1 nearby resource, so the player won't run out of buildings before connecting all of the resources to the main city.  In other cases, though, you will run into instances where you want to connect more resources and you will sometimes need every available building to accomplish that.  The poorly placed building won't hurt the player in this play through most likely, but the difference does matter.

4c) If you are going to play a custom sovereign, give extra consideration to picks like Enchanters and Legacy of Serrane that grant buildings as part of their benefits.  If you are using manual building placement, it helps to have all the buildings you can get.  Make sure the choices reflect your strategy, but keep in mind 1 more building can make the difference sometimes in whether a resource is guarded by your city defenders or if it isn't.  This is made more important by the fact that the AI absolutely loves to target unconnected resources during wars and often wildland enemies target them as well if they are wandering.  If the enemy steps on one of those you can lose many turns worth of production to build it again.

For this playthrough I am playing vanilla sov.



 

on Nov 26, 2013

Altar : Lord Relias

The main race and the protagonist on both campaigns of the game. If you have played him and his race, you would noticed this set is specialized for champion experiences and quest, with decent ‘rush’ ability to boost (able to move twice in one turn, but then lose next turn) mobility in the tactical battle. Recommended for who likes RPG elements of the game a lot.

 

You sure about losing a turn on using 'rush'? I am nearly certain this is not the case. Crushing blow makes you lose a turn, but I do not believe 'rush' does.

on Nov 26, 2013

kwm1800
2) The 3/3/1 tile still looks to be within a distance of 1 from a forest tile. If you are in the game it is pretty easy to measure this, but I am just guessing from the screenshots. If so, a city built there can still make the lumber mill. Maybe it can't make it on turn 1 if the wood is diagonal to the home city, but it will be enabled for later building when you can put it in a forest tile. Also note that it doesn't have to be in the forest tile next to the city. For those who turn on manual building placement, they can "snake" the lumber mill and have it be far from the wood that enabled its construction.

Yes, I thought it was diagonal that it wouldn't had access to forest. And no, you can't "snake" to the forest to enable that. There is a snake mod enable that, but in default game, it won't.

Think you lost me on your answer here, are you agreeing that it was a diagonal and you could use the logging camp? Or saying that is not possible without the snaking mod. Because if it is inside the 8 immediate squares surrounding the city tile, you CAN use that forest, or for that matter a river (for the pier, dock, etc.) if that happened to land in one of the 4 diagonal squares.

on Nov 26, 2013

I should add in... except for the couple questions I asked above, very awesome and solid original post. Love how you are describing part of your thought process, this should be an invaluable post for new players to read!

on Nov 26, 2013

If the forest is at a diagonal from the starting city, you can build a lumber mill in that city.  Same for river, as the other poster mentioned.

AFAIK, the snaking mod just changes the rule so that you need to start within 2 squares of a forest/river instead of just within 1 square of it.  I don't use this mod or any other mod, so someone else might know better.

Even if you only use Air + Life, having 2 enchantments on your first city means you can use +initiative enchantment along with +HP enchantment, at a bonus of 2 each.  Or trade the +HP for +Fire Damage since you got a fire magic hero after you started.  I think these bonuses would be more than +1 hammer.

Premade Sov vs Custom Sov - My first game was with a custom sovereign and almost every game after that was also with a custom sovereign.  The comment wasn't directed at you and this game in specific, instead more as a general thing people need to think about for their own games in which they might not be using premade sovereigns.

The Shadow Warg doesn't cost any upkeep because Procipinee has the item Procipinee's Crown, btw.

on Nov 26, 2013

Leo in WI


Altar : Lord Relias

The main race and the protagonist on both campaigns of the game. If you have played him and his race, you would noticed this set is specialized for champion experiences and quest, with decent ‘rush’ ability to boost (able to move twice in one turn, but then lose next turn) mobility in the tactical battle. Recommended for who likes RPG elements of the game a lot.

 

You sure about losing a turn on using 'rush'? I am nearly certain this is not the case. Crushing blow makes you lose a turn, but I do not believe 'rush' does.

 

Yes it does, You can try yourself.

 

Leo in WI


Quoting kwm1800, reply 162) The 3/3/1 tile still looks to be within a distance of 1 from a forest tile. If you are in the game it is pretty easy to measure this, but I am just guessing from the screenshots. If so, a city built there can still make the lumber mill. Maybe it can't make it on turn 1 if the wood is diagonal to the home city, but it will be enabled for later building when you can put it in a forest tile. Also note that it doesn't have to be in the forest tile next to the city. For those who turn on manual building placement, they can "snake" the lumber mill and have it be far from the wood that enabled its construction.

Yes, I thought it was diagonal that it wouldn't had access to forest. And no, you can't "snake" to the forest to enable that. There is a snake mod enable that, but in default game, it won't.

Think you lost me on your answer here, are you agreeing that it was a diagonal and you could use the logging camp? Or saying that is not possible without the snaking mod. Because if it is inside the 8 immediate squares surrounding the city tile, you CAN use that forest, or for that matter a river (for the pier, dock, etc.) if that happened to land in one of the 4 diagonal squares.

 

Raiddinn

If the forest is at a diagonal from the starting city, you can build a lumber mill in that city.  Same for river, as the other poster mentioned.

AFAIK, the snaking mod just changes the rule so that you need to start within 2 squares of a forest/river instead of just within 1 square of it.  I don't use this mod or any other mod, so someone else might know better.

I said it is not possible without the snaking mod.

This was definitely not possible for me when I was playing FE and early version of LH. Maybe I am doing something wrong or something has been changed when I was not playing this game. It's been a while since last time I played this game. Only recently I started back.

 

on Nov 26, 2013

And guess what, This auto-save got me again. The pioneer trained in my capital city just disappeared when I loaded, with empty population in the city.

 

I am so frustrated that after more than a year, auto-save is still broken as hell and I suddenly lost will to play this map further. I don't know if I want to continue.

 

Still there are portions of the writing left to be finished, but I am not in mood to continue to do so.

on Nov 26, 2013

N/A

on Nov 27, 2013

Primal_Savage


Quoting kwm1800, reply 22
And guess what, This auto-save got me again. The pioneer trained in my capital city just disappeared when I loaded, with empty population in the city...

 

Reload the previous autosave? Your pioneer will be 1 turn away from completion (If you have auto-save set at each turn).

 

Nop, still gone. Now I remember more precisely, my pioneer was actually moving on the wild, going to west to make a town city there.

This is just frustrating. Before I stopped playing Elemental and 1.4, Auto-save was at best ok-ish, but now this is something more.

 

on Nov 27, 2013

I will at least finish the writing (only need to put the pictures now) on tomorrow, and then.. well I will decide to either start again or not bothering this.

on Nov 27, 2013

I was just playing a game (expert) myself and I was doing the worst because I got a really bad start.  Ythril was hurting me pretty bad and razed one of my 3 cities.

I beat one of their main armies, but they had another right by me.  I had to take my units into a city to heal.

Well, I had tamed a hoarder spider and that was really helping me defend against them, except when my units went into the city it poofed into non-existence.

I don't know if it is supposed to work like that, but I wouldn't think so.

I had no heart left to play that game anymore after getting cheated out of my best unit.

on Nov 27, 2013

Raiddinn
Well, I had tamed a hoarder spider and that was really helping me defend against them, except when my units went into the city it poofed into non-existence.

There are other threads on this. Did you have the maximum number of units in your army before you tamed the Hoarder Spider?

on Nov 27, 2013

No.  I had 6 units counting the hoarder spider and I was running around using it.  Then I went into a city that had 2 units in it and I lost 2 units in my regular army, the hoarder spider and something else I don't remember what it was.

So I did have the army size capped before I went into the city, but the city should always be able to hold an extra 9, right?

I thought extra city defenders weren't ever capped, but if they are capped just like the army then I would think 2 of my units would sit out instead of 2 units suiciding.

on Nov 27, 2013

Raiddinn

No.  I had 6 units counting the hoarder spider and I was running around using it.  Then I went into a city that had 2 units in it and I lost 2 units in my regular army, the hoarder spider and something else I don't remember what it was.

So I did have the army size capped before I went into the city, but the city should always be able to hold an extra 9, right?

I thought extra city defenders weren't ever capped, but if they are capped just like the army then I would think 2 of my units would sit out instead of 2 units suiciding.

 

It does not matter the size of the unit. The whole beastlord and collar-controlled beasts are broken and you will lose them any situation as soon as you go into the city.

on Nov 27, 2013

So here is the leftover. I guess.. I dislike seeing my effort going to waste, I think I will go forward even with this ridiculous bug.

 

------

 

Because the darkling may attack my scout, I won’t try pick up the goodie next to it, instead I am grabbing quests. Once I activated the quest, it is mine and I don’t have to worry about AI taking it.



In turning phase, no surprise, the spiders decided to attack my queen’s army when it is crossing over the river.


The small black widow (yes, there will be bigger one) has no armor, other than that, it is really a balanced monster. It has good health points, attacks strong and most importantly, it has poison effect on attack that will poison the army, continuously damage it until the battle ends. It also has good confusion-type spell (which gives chance to attack random unit instead of the target, perfect for against numerous armies like… mine) and immobilization skill called web. Very versatile beast type monster that I do get those spiders when I play sovereign with beastlord trait.


Oh, speaking of beastlord, it is utterly broken in 1.5 patch so do not play as beastlord until it is fixed.


Like I said, AI does know what unit needs to be die, and it is indeed my spearmen, doing massive damage on them.



But I still won the battle and got a nice leather armour for my queen.

 

And finally my city has reached level 2. I have to choose what my first city would become. So here are three choices.


1.) Town : Specialized for making gildar and provide more food for other cities. Which both are not needed for early game.


2.) Fortress : Specialized for more production and troop training. Very needed for early game.


3.) Conclave : Specialized for more research and mana production. Also very needed for early game.



As I like to go for production, I chose Fortress. Now, since my city has reached level 2, I am free to produce my pioneer, which will sacrifice 30 population from the city. You will notice the level up bar (which is also population bar) has decreased considerable amount. The reason I have been holding back making pioneer from the first city despite the fact it already has enough population is that if I do make pioneer too early, I will further delay my city’s level up. Notice, even if the population goes to zero, once the city is leveled up, it won’t degrade to lower level with all of the improvements intact.


I keep cleaning spider nest (found another one further east.) and queued the pioneer and put it on very first of the production order. My scout is keep picking the quests.


Now, my planning is separate one of my troops (militia one) as a new scout to further go down east, and I am moving back and clear the west side while doing quests. I could circle around but I may get obstacle to do so. Now, with 1 slot of my army stack will be empty, it’s time to create new spearmen.


But I do not like current original design of spearmen, not to mention the design is actually inefficient. So I decided to create a new design. So, same weapon (spear) but this time, for armor, I am not going to equip that basic upper body armor and cloak. A trait called Ironskin will gives 3 armour for 14 productions, while the armor and cloak currently cost total of 2 armour for 12 production. While difference may seem small, this is early game now, and every single production number counts.

Also I am going to put underdog trait. My spearmen will attack stuffs harder if the stuffs have higher level than my spearmen, which will be…. pretty much everything on the map right now since my spearmen will be just level 2. Now I name this unit as a Slayer.


Now my pioneer is dashing for the new tile for making city, and with 2 essences and normal 3 materials, this will be my first conclave.



Dragon teeth, very useful summoning item (consumed after use) when against harder army. Remember, if you fight monster stack that is higher combat rating than yours, and win it, you get more experience bonus than cleaning lower combat rating.




Argh, an umberdroth. With an hoard spider, it is the best monster a beastlord can get. I’d kill myself for tame this dog as fast as I can, but my queen is not a beastlord and with current patch, the beastlord is utterly broken so unless I get studded collar, I will just kill it anyway.


So my pioneer created a second city, and I just noticed it also has iron ore next to it. Very important for making armor and higher-grade weapon troops since it needs metals.

The build order of soon-to-be conclave is follows Workshop -> Belltower -> Scrying pool -> Garden -> (study) -> rest. Always take care of production and unrest. Notice taking care of unrest both improves production and research of the city. For the enchantment I put research one and mana generation, which will generate mana per turn depending on how many enchantment sockets the city has. Currently it is 2, so it will generate 2 mana per turn. After the scrying pool, it will be 3 mana per turn.

Workshop at the first city has been completed and now has enough population to make another pioneer, so I put another pioneer on the production tab after slayer.


Milita says goodbye to queen and moving further to east, while my queen is going back to west.


My scout is actually getting blocked by wandering monsters and hostile knights here.


After turn is passed, hostile knights responded and moving toward my scout. It got the aggression and targeted my scout. If I do not move him properly, he will die here.


He escaped the knights, keep picking up goodies and moving forward to west, but now I’d like to change the direction to south and circle back to east. Now see what he picked up so far….


disappointing is the best word to describle. At least he got plenty of the quest activated.


(now funny bug happened again. I decided to reload the game with autosave, and those slayers being made on, is gone from my city, yeah, they just disappeared. I laugh at the fact that autosave is still broken as hell, after all of these years. I am not sure if I did the right choice to pre-order Galciv 3.)


Anyway, I will fight this shaman stack without slayers. Notice my butchermen army has grown to 4 men from 1 man. Now, I am going to skip the detailed tactical battle description for already-covered lairs. I will do it again when I meet new enemies.


I won the battle and butchermen is now maxed at 6 men unit, doing massive 54 damage.


Trading is done, and now I am working on knowledge.


Another reason I rushed trading was that when the research is done, the roads are automatically created between cities, and it is not just for beauty; roads actually gives a huge bonus to the unit’s movements on the world map so I can move around the map much faster when my unit is on the road.


Now, time to finish this sand golem thing quest…


Something to remember, sand golem (and a lot of natural golems), all ogres except young and banished ogre, all trolls, and some others, and any trained units with club-style weapons like milita, has an ability called crushing blow. It makes the unit loses next turn, but it smashes its target with twice damage. Now with my queen and low-level champion, it is such a fatal blow and usually kill him/her at one hit unless he/she dodges or have enough hp and/or defense to survive. If the champion and/or sovereign dies, even if the battle is won, no experience point for him/her will be given. So I won’t put my queen on the front of the sand golem.

 

Sand golem used its crushing blow on butchermen, but butchermen dodged it, and won the battle.


And I completely forgot putting experience enchantment on my queen, damn it.



Hmmm, 6/3/0 tile is quite rare. It can go to level 3 town with little problem I think.


Another mistake. I thought this lair was darkling warrior lair, but it was wilding warrior lair. Wildings are actually weaker than darkling although they have more hp. Oh well, nothing special until you meet wilding shaman, which is completely different monster from other wilding types.


...but crushing blows really hurts.


and they killed my shadow warg. Good thing it is a summoned. Now, instead of summoning it again, I’d rather wait to my queen to get another level for summoning. The reason is that this game’s level up system is also utterly broken (yeah, a lot of things are utterly broken indeed.)


Consider this scenario:

Summon level 1 shadow warg and by participating battles, it is now level 5

Summon level 5 shadow warg, it is level 5 from start.


Those two are very different. Only obvious thing they will have common is their health value (even for some cases, this is also not true too.)  second case will have higher attack and higher initiative value that will make far more dangerous. Former case will still have same damage when it got from level 1


You see, the problem is this whole level up mechanism is hard-coded, and different at each individual monsters. Some cases levels do not make differences at all, some cases everything changes, and some other cases only partial differences occur. In a code file, it is a total mess. I once tried to mod this problem, and I gave up shortly after I saw how much modification and rewriting has to be done on this part.

 

I may be able to do a lot more for today and tomorrow.
3 Pages1 2 3