Do I say they are combat ships?

I mean, it is amusing that there is capital ship balance thread written by me and someone still brings this.

Here's another funny thing for you to munch on, and I'll just do the battleships here:

Kortul: 2650 hull base, +115 per level = 3685 at 10.
          1425 shield base, +165 per level = 2910 at 10.

Kol: 3000 hull base, +120 per level = 4080 at 10.
       1250 shield base, +135 per level = 2465 at 10.

Radiance: 2200 hull base, +90 per level = 3010 at 10.
               1750 shield base, +180 per level = 3370 at 10.

They don't even all have the same survivability! The Kol has 395 more hull than Kortul, but the Radiance has 675 less. Surely that's unbalanced.

Your inability to see the rationale is due to your inability to think about more than one stat at a given time in its absolute form.

If, in my example above, I called capital ships unbalanced because their hp is different, everyone would point out they have different abilities, different damage outputs, etc. The same works backwards.

Annatar, you are funny as hell. You pick the one side only that supports.

How hp is different? I mean your numbers prove yourself wrong.

3685+2910 = 6595 Kortul....

6545 for Kol...

6580 for Radiance.

Numbers are very tightly close. And no, they don't do different damage outputs; TEC and Advent are very close or same in dps output. Only Vasari suffers.

At last, you have not answered my question. This is not a answer.

See, the situation is like this.

Q : So why high school students cannot drink?

There are two answers for that.

A1 : High school students are worse than college students.

A2 : Because they don't have enough control over their minds. The brains are not fully developed yet and....

See, what you giving me is A1 type answer, while I want A2 type answer.

The way I see it is yes the caps of the Vasari are lower then others races. But have you checked out their frigates and cruisers. Total opposite! Therefore the other races, especially the Advent, are more combat intentsive the Vasari are more supportive therefore they dont need higher dps but better fleet abilities.

What? for cost per performance they are remarkably similar.

Partial compensation for their lower DPS is their cultural damage bonus (up to +15% damage).

Shield bypass has the most significant effect on Advent fleets who are heavily shield dependent and their hulls are the most fragile of all the races we have in Sins. It gives Vasari players a method of mitigating the Progenitor's Shield Restore ability as the Advent do not have a repair ability that can adequately sustain their hulls.

You also do realize that abilities are usually the primary reason why a player would construct a particular capital ship? HP/Shields/AM/Armor, even DPS are usually given second priority to abilities. Stripping a capital ship of its abilities simply makes it a hardened, expensive heavy cruiser.

and yet i see you starting a thread about damage per second on capital ships?

did you even  consider that the ships with lower damage and/or hull actually DO have superior abilities like annatar is trying to tell you?

even toguh i think the comparrison is a little....  WRONG  ?

he is giving you A2,  he even wrote down the numbers for you

"btw annatar do you know those values from the head??     cuase that'd really convince me of you being a Soase geek

the spreadsheet in question has numerous glaring errors on it. i'd like to point out one in particular since it came up in this post.

here is the reference line from the spreadsheet regarding the Jarrasul

13 wave/ front

5 wave/front

18.7 phase missile/sides+rear

the phase missile line is totally wrong. first of all its a pulse beam not a phase missile. second of all the firing arcs are not sides+rear. there are 6 beams on the little bulge on the bottom of the ship. 2 of them can fire directly frontal, the other 4 of them are mostly sides facing. its a similar setup to the 6 pulse beams on Kortul.

if the real firing arcs were accounted for correctly you'd get a DPS of 23.2 for targets that were exactly to the front of a Jarrasul. even more frequently it can fire with 4 of the beams to a target that is just slighty to the side. it will still be in range of the frontal wave cannons but will get hit by 12.4 of the pulse beams dps for a total damage of 29.4.

thats what i observe in game and to me that makes alot of sense because it gives numbers that are directly comparable to those of the Akkan. better than the Akkan actually.

im just trying to say that making arguments off of spread-sheets or even the data in the entity files of the game is just not very accurate or revealing of anything useful. you'd have to take the numbers and then couple them with your real in-game observations to understand how it really plays out.

WTF I read this whole post and I'm just saying WTF. The Vasari maybe have weaker capital ships but they more than compensate with their frigates and cruisers. Plus lets not forget that CAPITAL SHIPS ARE FOR SUPPORT ALWAYS NOT COMBAT. The bulk of your force is frigates and cruisers and not capital ships. The vasari may have weaker capital ships in combat but they have amazing abilities. For example. The skirantra carrier has the repair cloud ability. Space egg has nano dissasembler. Devastator has missle swarm and dissintegration. The kortul has volatile nanites and power surge. The antorak well that thing does really have wet noodles and yo mama jokes. But a Vasari fleet made of frigates and cruisers buffered by Capital ships is almost unfuckingstoppable. Man this is annoying.

Thanks a lot, transitive.

The spreadsheet is the problem, as I guessed. You can never be sure how many of the guns can actually fire in one direction, as you have shown with your Jarrasul Evacuator example.

And to be honest, if we just play the Vasari ingame, their capital ship dps does not feel lower than that from other races. They just do not have Missile Barrage. Sorry for beating that horse again, SCNR.

Good point

Ok, I've been convinced that the Kortul and Vulkoras need no DPS boost.

But, the Antorak is still seriously lacking in firepower. This ship needs a DPS boost because it has no abilities that deal damage

Why does a purely support vessel need abilities that deal damage? It's abilities are probably the best fleet-supporting abilities in the game! Seriously, Phase Out? Fleet-wide speed boosts!?