... ?

Actually, I think I get where you are coming from and making good, well-designed maps is really something that would pick up the competitive/strategic side of Sins.

There was a time I think when this was more common than it is now.

That's nonsense, other rts games such as age of empires and age of mythology make use of random generated maps. It requires a lot of skill to scout correctly and base your strategy based of your findings.

Until we have more access to the maps themselves, your suggestion is moot as premade maps are just as unfair as random maps.  There are differences in number of extractors and planet militia that cannot be accounted for in the GalaxyForge map maker provided to us.  You are also massively wrong.  For the longest time in the days of vanilla sins people played almost exclusively premade maps, and many were afraid to go near the random.  The fact is, with a small community, the only way to switch up the variables periodically is to switch up the maps.  Sure, I could play razor's edge over and over or any premade map you want and the fact is I would roflstomp 99.9% of the community every game, every time.  At least with the random map, it forces pros to get out of their comfort zone of a designated build order for a certain map (which I assure you happens frequently in SC2 or any RTS you want to bring to the table.

The fact is, the random map generator is one of the brighter sides of sins, and is best utilized in a slower paced game because it allows you time to think about your situation and react accordingly.  Stop comparing this to DOTA games and FPS, sins is nothing like those games and hopefully never will be.  To be honest, if you try to jam sins down the same cookie cutter path every other RTS takes (one or two commonly played maps, five or six despised and unbalanced ones) people will get sick of the game within weeks, and anyone who wants to play the e-Sport side of the game will just leave to a more established scene.

As a vet of this game online who has played probably close to 3000 games, I assure you, the random map is about the only reason why i've stayed interested for as long as I have.

Star Player

Untill the issue with extractor counts and planet militia are resolved, premade maps are worthless.

And then you have plantary bonuses and artifacts.

If you want a ladder like in sc2, you need premade maps that are symetrical in all the above respects. Or "random symetrical" maps.

I consider at hte very minimum, the ability to set up planets to premade specs, and map sharing to be the MINIMUM REQUIREMENT for any sort of competitive sinning.

it grieves me to think that there is a chance rebellion would be released without some sort of something along these lines.

I agree with PBHead--the ability to specify exact resource asteroids would be the absolute best.  Making a balanced map that isn't just boring symmetry takes a lot of thought and effort and is never perfect.

But I still think well-made maps and map sharing would be a huge boost to play.

actually having a random element adds something to professional play.  Being able to adapt and overcome to situations that occur at the start is a way to ensure that there are more then one paths to victory, and makes for more exciting gameplay overall. 

This forces good TEAMWORK to overcome the opponents.  Some games are frakked at the beginning, its true.  Yet at the same time, watching players overcome adversity is every bit a "professional" talent.  Whether that adversity is inherent in a map design or not.

I would say that professionals who play on random maps allow for a greater risk of losing, a greater risk of their pride being hurt.  I would say this breeds the kind of professional a person wants to see in a game.

Why? because these professionals become able to use teamwork to overcome their positional start.

Its much like the differences between American football and football.

In american football the team is designed to ensure that one guy gets the ball and runs it down the field.  One hero and everyone else supports that hero. 

In football everyone must be strong, everyone must think together, and everyone must play as a team and adapt to situations as they occur (in American football you get rest breaks...lol). Everyone gets the ball in football. 

In American football you need genetic freaks to play, in football almost anyone with enough dedication and a certain level of natural skill can hope to play professionally.

Its no small wonder why football is the world sport, while American football is a national sport.

There are many games that are played by "pros" that don't allow for complex levels of teamwork.  I enjoy sins because it allows me to sacrifice my homeworld to do far more damage to the opposing team (much like chess). 

adding in a random element would be nice... if that random element was SYMETRIC.  its no fun if you are roid fucked, and linked to a max militia 2 roid volcanic and magnetic storm, while your enemy gets a 3 rock plasma and a min militia desert.

and were are not even talking about strategic positioning and phase lanes. PHOOO... all you guys (me included) just think about unit balance and the one big fight at one single planet, and empires that look like lines.   Corvettes, i believe, once balanced, will change that SIGNIFICANTLY.

When it takes an hour or more just to START A GOD DAM GAME... and then finding a stupid dumbassmap...

If you are both fucked, then ya, sure, thats fun adaptation. same with if you both get friggen lucky.

And the devs (I asked a long time ago) said that symetric random maps are far to hard for them to implement.

well with moons the chances of getting roid frakked have been reduced.  Also everyone has a stronger economy now, so even military players can put up the pressure on eco players on a more even playing field then ever before.  I feel that having symetrical maps would make sins over time boring, because you will know precisely how far away you need to be in a grav well (with equal phase lane flight times) and you will know precisely where you need to be to ensure that you are getting faster reinforcements then the other guy. Having everything the same speed gets boring over time.

This also totally gives veterans a huge map advantage as they will know every nuance of the map.  In my view a pro is a person who is better at making decisions then other players, a player who is better able to adapt to changing situations.  I would say that pros that play sins are learning something real, while pros that play games like starcraft aren't thinking at a higher level and in real life aren't all that impressive mentally. 

That is why i still fully support random phase lane length because there is an initial learning curve on the first clash between forces that dictate how future battles in that area will be fought.  This learning curve ensures the game retains its freshness, as no two games will be ever exactly the same. Don't screw with the brain chemistry that works so well already .

We don't need to copy starcraft and blizzards "make everything fair" view to have a killer game.

and once again.  a symetrical option would be an option, not a rule.

but in a 1v1.  I want SKILL not LUCK to be the desiding factor.

'Make everything fair' is different from "making things such that the game is not desided when the map loads."

Using your silly analogy...

There is a reason why in both soccor and football teams switch sides of the playing field (THE MAP) partway though the game.

durpdurpdurp.

Is this serious?  Tell me you are trolling us, looking for some nationalistic American to start a flame war....

Anyway...

Well said...this here is the primary reason I don't like playing strategy games on designed maps...aside from the fact that it gets boring, it puts a heavy weight on having experience with that specific map....

No trolling at all, I am using these as an excellent cultural example between two different cultural values on teamwork.  People of the world who value football, and the USA that values American football.  There is a fundamental difference of understanding about teamwork in the USA that is unique in the world.  I use this case example as a way to convey my point, and it does so admirably to those who are used to making their own brain connections.

I myself am nationalistic American who is a veteran of the USA's armed forces.  I will point out the faults in our system though, even if I believe the whole to be a very good thing.  Every system has its flaws, any person who flames me will inevitably fail against this counter.  I believe one flaw in the USA is how we view and value teamwork.  I believe this to be a major reason behind our decline as a nation and will stop at nothing to rectify the situation any way that one small working stiff on a forum can. 

I use the word believe loosely, I have a lot of personal experience and leadership training that gives me far more basis for this "belief" then just mere fancy.

What we need are symmetrical or balanced-by-design starting points and random core areas or peripheral areas equally accessible to all.

I'm a fan of random because that does reflect real warfare but not so random that you can start out as a trailer park and your far neighbor begins as Bill Gates.

As you can see. there are a wide range of opinions, each with merits.

But the fact that we only have 2 options atm. (random and unfair, and premade and unfair) is unacceptable.